Does anyone disagree with the King Hassan's tier list allocation?
I mean, yeah it is true that the assassin modifier hurts a bit, but Triple Buster Deck counts for a lot in damage dealing even without Buster Brave Chain. Not to mention his amazing Arts and Quick card, the performance of 1 Arts card can rival even some of the other 5* in terms of NP or star generation. At the very least, he is probably the best in terms of Rider boss killing (non-female), more so than Berserkers isn't it? Shouldn't that count as being best at his role as well?
And then that point about him being susceptible to poor card draw... erm which damage dealer isn't? I have seen a lot of gamepress comment about some servants having good damage potential because of 2 Buster card with a Buster NP... doesn't that sound even less consistent then? I sort of get the point of him being inconsistent because he might have to choose between either hitting hard with BBB or generate good amount of NP or stars with some of the other cards - isn't that just another wonderful point about him? A way to put it is he can hit hard with proper card draw but even with not-so-good draws he can still generate some good NPs. Also the point about a strong extra attack being a concern instead of a bonus... huh??? First world problem?
Just to make sure, I don't write this to undermine the writer's opinion - though it is inevitable to some extent, to which I apologize. I know that tier list is always subjective, and the writer (who is probably more qualified than me in FGO commentary) has worked hard to offer us his valuable opinion on a new Servant... a̶n̶d̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶f̶a̶n̶b̶o̶y̶ ̶b̶i̶a̶s̶ but I just want to know what the others think about this.
Yeah, Hassan is at the very least tier 3, or maybe possibly even tier 2. The Tierlists are shit anyway, Chevalier, nero, and Zerkerlot are all tier 3 for some unknown reason. Gorgon and Elizabeth Bathory are stuck all the way down in the same tier as Gawain.
No I'm actually in agreement with gamepress on this. Hassan is truly unique and very powerful but his focus is so damn narrow compared to his 5-star counterparts.
I've never agreed with gamepress' mentality of "choose berserkers because they have more damage", because berserkers require either luck or heavy support to not die in two turns. Damage means nothing when you're dead.
However at the same time, damage is all that King Hassan does with a small chance of inflicting instant death. Without the support and star generation capabilities that assassins like Jack and Cleo have, he clearly falls behind them in terms of overall performance. Thus, this relegates King Hassan to the mid-tiers, with only his amazing survivability keeping him out of tier 5.
Makes sense. Perhaps it is more of my personal approach to prefer specialization instead of general usefulness. Imo if I need a damage dealer I will take the best one and support him with best supports ie Merlin Waver; semi supports are quite inefficient imo but in some stages or team comp it could work even better actually. That being said, to say that he is out of tier 5 because of his survivability is quite an overstatement tho given his damage potential. Also survivability is one of the best features of King Hassan anyway - that is like taking NP charge away from Waver.
The problem with survivability being his biggest strength is that it's kinda overkill in his case. For berserkers like Cu Alter, their survivability acts as a major strength since it's one of those things that most berserkers struggle with, but excluding the berserker class it's rare to see servants die outside of challenge quests and (maybe) major story bosses. But yeah, his damage isn't actually that bad.
I did that very often and 99% of the time there is no problem because the DPS can definitely clear them out before Merlin or any other Caster Support dies. Merlin's healing and 1 turn invincibility helps a lot as well.
Nope, I disagree with you @Tcommando. The “Overall performance” including survival ability, so that KHS can easily outperform them. Like i said below, KHS can solo even Caster, long challenge quests but Cleo and Jack cant. If you said Cleo and Jack generated more NP and Stars then i’ll agree. But still, normally people will run him with supports, and if they are dual Merlin, KHS will be the best Assassin.
Edit: KHS still outdamages Cleo and even Cleo steriod is too RNG ( 60% ), what if its not triggered to kill the boss before he’s using NP.
I think Cleo will perform better with dual merlin due to the fact that there will be an insane amount of crit stars all time and the fact Cleo can take advantage of those using her buster NP and cards(buster up for one turn) plus she has invincibility and Heals so she's not that bad at soloing too, invincibility is better than guts most cases IMO
She’s only comparable if her 1st skill triggered. Don’t forget KHS 50% buster up and 20% atk up. Quick crit dmg = 0.8x2=1.6 ~ 1 Buster card but what if 1 Buster crit ? and with 3 Buster Cards KHS can inherit more from Merlin Hero Creation 50% buster up AND he can do Buster Brave Chain more frequently. Dual Merlin NP 2030 give 26 stars so stars should not be the problem.
i do aggre with the problem in cleo case. her 1 is inconsistent and she need to draw 2 buster card with her np to truly do good damage.
but you are making it look like he is a quick servant, and she is not.
She is a buster with a better deck then king hassan.
As the writer of the KH writeup (although we all chime in with feedback), let me state first and foremost that all writeups are written irrespective of any tier list placement. The writeup highlights the key aspects of a Servant and hopefully guide readers to a better understanding of the Servant at the same time. I've always made myself strong to try and keep any discussion of a Servant's tier placement of relative power mostly outside of a writeup.
After all, we can move Servants in the tier list easily, but altering a writeup is a lot more work! A writeup can be made fairly timeless, while a tier list moves with time and Servant releases.
The writeup doesn't list the Extra attack as a weakness either - rather it mentions how it's so great but getting access to it isn't always possible, which is a bit of a drawback. Don't forget that a lot of his generation is locked behind that Extra card as well, so failing to get one in 3 turns is a bit of a bummer if you want to charge his NP.
This isn't comparable to a Buster NP with 2 Buster card set ups either - those turns tend to be a massive bonus in damage potential but you don't tend to be very reliant on them. Especially with break bar coming up. Anyway, it's not the damage aspect of First Hassan that is inconsistent, it's his generation and through generation getting the NP bar charged. It's why he likes his supports as well.
However, a big problem that is not in his writeup, but is in his explanation/change log, is that he doesn't offer very much outside of soloing and destroying Challenge Quests. It's what he excels at, but others can do the same and provide more to the team and/or excel in other aspects like farming. KH meanwhile is all bulk and damage.
Besides, I must make it clear that I find the notion that tier 4 is disappointing a bit strange. There are some awesome Servant in that tier such as Orion, Tesla, Brynhild, Altera, etc. Besides, the tier 4 description is very apt here.
Either way, I've already recently brought up the idea to rephrase the tier list description due to the way Medb was recently discusses. Anyway, tier list discussion are always going to be contentious. Feel Free to keep discussing - we aren't immune to criticism or good feedback! In fact, a Jalter rewrite soon to be released was kick-started by solid feedback elsewhere!
I've always seen tier 4 as 'middle of the pack'. None of the servants there are bad, just a bit more narrow in what they offer in relation to other servants.
Which describes First Hassan pretty darn well, doesn't it? We discussed t3 and t4 and figured in the long run t4 matched a bit better.
Thanks for the clarification - the difference seems to arise from my obsession with specialisation and damage over other utilities.
Anyway, personally I find the tier 4 to be a really inconsistent tier, and I can't help comparing the units there with the current Jeanne (more so since Merlin's release). And also the point with Medb as well...
Looking forward to the Jalter rewrite btw.
Good! seeing medb down there with arturia and X is so sad!
Medb is generally good but she win over ozy and kuku if the enemy is a man, while arturia (with no buff of np charge) is weaker in any way compared to her rival!
He works pretty shit in team comps tbh. He is an outstanding solo unit but doesn't offer anything to support a team. I wouldn't place him at 4th but not higher than 3.
Keep in mind that the tier placement is skewed by the fact there there only 2 servants that are tier 1, making the lower tiers seem worse then they actually are (tier 3 SSRs are still AMAZING).
That being said, I didn't really understand what all the hype for Hassan was either. An assassin with a buster deck and defensive skill set doesn't have good synergy. On top off that, a death debuff with a ST instant death NP is pretty niche (and that's being pretty generous).
I'm not going to lie that I've never set up a party just to go to buster card town, but that's what berserkers are for, don't really need an assassin to do that.
In his own class, he is outperformed by Jack, and at his primary role, he is outmatched by Herc and Cu Alter. It's really just soloing that he is unmatched at tbh.
The hype comes from how teased he was in the story and his design. They say on his GP page that his instant death should be seen as more of an added bonus than something you should actively think about when considering his performance, and I tend to agree. He does just fine without it, it's not a major factor into his performance.
I don’t think Jack can outperform KHS in assassin class. It is true that Jack has more utilities so he’s placed at higher tier. Jack is well know with Crit Stars and spammable Np, but his drawback is his lackluster deck so his normal attacks cant be comparable with KHS ( 0.8 vs 1.5 ). KHS’s NP gain mb not the same as Jack but mind you he has the best Arts card in the game, one can say his Arts card = 2 normal Arts cards, and his Quick card’s great too. I’ve seen KHS videos a lot, so believe me, his Np gain isnt a propblem. In addition, Jack survival skill ties up with his steroid so it cant be used freely. Still not counting KHS’s bucky side.... Overall, as a solo Assassin he can outperform all other assassins. And with ideal supports like dual Merlin, who can outperform him? Overall of overall, HAIL FOR THE KING 👌👌👌
Picture source: Reddit
Yeah the damage between Jack and King Hassan is just Okita vs Musashi all over again lol. One can span NP/crit better and the other has more busters to work with. I do agree that Jack's survival is nowhere near as good as KH's, and honestly I think KH's skillset is just straight-up better, despite Jack's better utility. Just a shame that his class limits him from using it as well as he could. I'm curious though, were the videos you've seen solos or him in an actual team comp?
I’ve seen a lot of videos on Wodan Youtube Chanel, he’s like Honako Green with FSN Cú. He has videos KHS solos with variety of quests even with Caster breakbars and KHS team comp too. But the most impressive video I’ve ever seen is “ Prison tower high difficulty, 7 Straight up battles “ of a Chinese player, its really amazaing, i think in this game only KHS and Cú alter can solo that ( or mb FSN Cú i dont know). Mb people underestimate a solo ability but i think the point of one game is to satisfy players not “ the most efficiency way for farming”, thus i feel satisfied with his straight up skillset, his design and his ability to solo the whole game 👌👌👌.
The prison tower video ;
https://youtu.be/JvdEU8ZhJ2E
I actually disagree and agree at the same time.
i disagree becouse, despite i think he is the coolest gramps ever, he is not really needed actually. his specalization is quite narrow and, well, kind of alredy taken by some berserker (cu alter and herc).
I cant find many use of him.
But.
I agree with you becouse
"Tier 2
These servants are among the best at their role. They are not only strong in most generic teams, but can also carry when their team is built around them. Some of them are not as versatile but their specialization is very powerful in the current state of the game."
thets the rule. Servant who are the best in their role, strong in generic team, but monster in team builded around them and in the current state of the game.
Hassan is the best ST buster assassin, good in generic team comp. If this is the rule, he should be T2 easy.
To be fair, i belive gramps is "less usefull" then jack or cleo (by the way, i have cleo and she is crazy awsome! she can easly outclass even jack IF she get lucky with the buff and the card. )
yeah, he should definitely be higher, and I feel like the line of "his triple Buster card deck may make his performance inconsistent if the right card chains aren’t drawn." is just plain pointless, because Every Single Servant can have that said about them, "oh, you only got one of Tamamo's arts cards from each draw and never were able to make an arts chain? oh well, guess she's a bad servant now"
and who cares about 90% damage when he has the 15th highest atk value in the game currently, sure he's no Jalter or Bersercu, but his damage isn't bad. after the base multiplier he's at 10663, which puts him just above Herc and just below Gorgon
I say he should go in teir 3 since he works the same if not better than Amakusa, and he's absolutely better than Cleopatra imo, since the only reason she belongs in teir 3 is because she's the only 5* aoe assassin
one commenter said tier 2 but even I, someone who loves the hassans, thinks that's pushing it, even if he's good, he's niche and needs a bit of support, tier 2 is mostly servants who can do their job without needing much if any support, and tier 3 is more of only needing one support servant to do good, I think of tier 4 as needing double support and 5 needing a very specialized team
I say he should go in tier 3 on either side of Amakusa since he's definitely above Cleo but probably not above Karna
i strongly object this!
Cleo is actually very strong.
the only reson why she is t3 and not t2 is becouse (and i can say becouse i have her maxed in all her skill) her damage is not consistent. she is not going to do much damage if she dont pull the buster card , or hitting the attack buff from imperial privilage she is not going to do crazy damage on boss.
But, despite her damage is not consistent, her np, star gen and survivability is out of the word. she is easly more sturdy then king hassan, and she can work as a stand to.
She can easly create 30/35 star AND charge her np from 0 to 100% in one AQQ chain (with her 2 up, without she get roughtly 40% of np)
I dont say thet she is the best servant, but you are kind of making her look bad in this post.
She is actually a good boss killer. After all she have a 40% attack buff and a 30% buster in NPBB chain buff.
Disagree on the Cleo comment. Her team synergy is superior to Hassan and can be put in any team and help the team, Hassan need to be built around or be solo. That said Cleo is super sturdy and can also solo despite being AOE NP with her rediculous heals and if the imperial privedge lands she can be a monster despite assassin class modifer.
Just a few slight corrections here, he doesn't work the same as Amakusa. Amakusa's NP generation is MUCH better than KH's and he also isn't a primary DPS, he is buff-clear support.
Cleopatra isn't the only 5* AOE assassin, Shuten also exists, she's just not nearly as good. Hassan needs support in a team, but ironically he's also one of the best soloing servants around.
I wouldn't say it's that cut-and-dry that he's above Cleo, but that largely comes down to the gameplay style you favour and what you are actually looking for in a servant.
The optimal damage deck is QAABB. It's a lot more reliable than QABBB and isn't as susceptible to card draw. Many damage dealers have this deck. In fact, I'd argue that their deck is what holds both Musashi and King Hassan back from being the best in their class.
I think you could argue he is the best soloer in the game, or at least very high up on that list, but for rider boss killing, I don't know, I still think Jack is better, but there probably isn't much difference. I'll have to use KH to really know for sure.
What's confusing to me is why King Hassan is being seemingly knocked harder for his deck despite the fact that he's still more consistent with his generation than Musashi, who is largely dependant on her first skill for hers but got put in tier 2.
I think what I'm getting from reading his review is that he has emphasis on both bulk and damage over utility, which for an assassin is not the best place to focus on, which is the reason for his low placement. I kind of agree; I mentioned somewhere before that he would be 100% top-tier if he was a berserker with his kit unchanged, and that his class is the biggest thing holding him back. Imo though his biggest problem is that he is not the only one who can perform his basic role - Jack is just as good as, or better than him at this depending on the circumstances, and unlike him she packs a ton of utility as the unmatched best star generator in the game along with healing and buff removal. It's not that KH is bad by his own merit, but rather that, at least imo, he is outclassed by his competition in most of what he does (except survivability, he's insane at this).
That said he is more or less unique among assassins as an entirely selfish boss-killer/soloer with a buster focus that works with Merlin, and I think that should count for something. Personally, just looking at the tier descriptions, I would probably have put him in tier 3.
Musashi has more useful utility and one of the strongest NPs in the game. Hassan has the instant death macanic that is currently a gimmick. Besides his survivability and great damage for an assassin, there are just better damage dealers out there. His niche is too niche. He's a great servant, but if you're comparing to other servants someone does what he does better. Or at least does something more that outweighs just amazing survivability.
You can bring double merlin in lancer battle to support Musashi because they're neutral there. But against rider? It's a suicide and their damage will be very shit with disadvantage class triangle so I don't think merlin or the other caster are a good support for Hassan beside plug-in to instant buff. Not to mention KH got 0.9 dmg because of his class.
I'm speaking from the point of view of a person WITHOUT a good assassin. I have at least one servant 4* or 5* for each base job (so I don't have an Avenger or a Ruler. And I don't have a 4 or 5 stars assassin. I have only three stars or below, and for my play-stile I don't want to spend too much resorce on 1*, 2* or 3* stars servants. So I feel sooo much the need for a good assassin, because I can rely only on support servant, but having one assassin (support) and 2 not-assassin against an enemy Rider means that everytime I have to pray that my no-assassin survive before that the support assassin can kill the enemies with his NP (so, for example, is a nightmare against Dragons and their aoe basic attacks). And I can't use a caster support to help my no-assassins, first because I don't have a Waver or a Merlin, and second because If I choose a caster support (so I don't take the assassin support), it will be a suicide against enemies riders.
From this point of view, where everytime I have to kill enemies fast before the death of my no-assassins, I'll be really happy if I find First Hassan, because he provide so much damage to help to kill enemies fast. Because we have to remember that even if Jack is the best star generator, her normal damage is not so good except for the NP. And if the enemy party have more than a single strong rider, Jack is at a disadvantage with her single target NP and low basic damage. Meanwhile at least First Hassan can survive more, do more damage and insta-kill the enemies to reduce their number.
I've made it all the way through Babylon with a L65 Hans being my support with assassins against riders. I did have him with a Volumen Hydrargyrum (3T inv) to give him time to charge his NP, and didn't usually use Mash or other defensive support. And he didn't die all that often (though I fairly frequently swapped him with the combat suit for the 3rd battle with Georgios also with the same CE for 3 full turns of protection).
So it's not suicide, and if Hans can do it, Merlin can (but maybe not Waver as he lacks the heals). I didn't have Waver or Merlin back then (I do now, though my Waver is waiting for some mats). A single assassin backed by Hans and Waver, even if a 3*, should do pretty well (this is one combo I can't say I've tested, as I was lucky enough to get Jack, but like I said, I've use Hans in the front with my L80 Jack plus a support assassin--Shiki if I wanted ST, Cleo for AoE).
It's that broken CE that make him survive and not everyone have that CE including me. Also george will steal the stars from KH with his star weight.
It's true that that is a very useful CE that I've been lucky enough to get 3 of. But on the other hand, I don't have other useful ones like Kaleidoscope, Fragment of 2030, Black Grail, nor any 4* CE MLB'ed (other than the ones they give us), so I can't use a lot of first turn NP strats either.
The thing I've learned with the game is that like playing poker or bridge, you got to play the hand that's dealt to you, and work with it. The other choice is to hope to get lucky, along with spending lots of money to increase your chances.
If I didn't have Volumen (and for some content where it wasn't Riders anyways), I'd use an arts and/or NP charge boosting CE on Hans so he could get his heal off on T2, or if he didn't need to, OC it. I was thinking that a Devilish Bodhisattva might be interesting, which would start his heals off at 2k with the chance to get it to 2500 or 3k with some extra turns or an NP chain. (I don't have this one either.) Since he was my only option at the time (until Merlin and the GSSR where I got Waver), I ran with him and what I had and made it work very well.
I actually agree with his placing. King hassan does fill a rare niche of buster assassin, but his hitcounts are severly lacking to generate c stars and he contributes nothing to the team. His damage is good for an assassin but not anything to write home about. Jack is far better because she can dish out way more damage to females AND contributes to the team with her heal and buff removal. And oh, her stargen is beyond comparison. The alter ego melt can do way better against many more classes than he can and her np is highly damaging and spammable to boot and even does bonus damage to foreigners AND removes all enemy buffs. Not to mention servants like gilgamesh far outclass him in the future. Thus king hassan will get much more irrelevant. Though at the moment, he can be quite good.
