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Servants' stats

Do these stats actually affect the game?
Or they're just for immersion?

Asked by HappyLittleFlame6 years 4 months ago

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They're just for immersion/lore purposes. I do wish they had some purpose in-game though, like if the servant's luck acted as an additional RNG modifier or something; that'd be pretty cool.

Immersion, I think. Fergus has A in strength, but is weaker compared to the stats of the likes of Altera and Saber who he defeats in strenght and stuff though not sure. The class skills matters though since they increase with rank.

Definitely immersion. It's what allows for the often used explanation "the servant itself is powerful but the summoner doesn't have the power to unleash that full power" with regards to servants like og Artoria. Makes sense too according to the nasu lore. If you were in the Nasuverse Artoria would be honorable like that and not as independent as say Gil, who you would be honored to have call you mongrel and you would basically allow to him to do his own thing

I’m actually kinda glad those stats are just for lore tbh

I mean, can you even imagine how screwed some of the servants with E Rank luck would be? They’d be taking critical damage or debuffs every turn without fail

Then Cu wouldn't be as broken hahaha

Diarmuid would probably quite literally get gored by a demon boar mid-combat. Like forreal. Like a demon boar would come out of nowhere if a servant’s luck parameter were taken into account as he’s probably the unluckiest servant ever.

Correct Cu also has E rank luck and I just realized that caused his deaths in Carnival Phantasm. Hahaha

Yeah that's true, it does disincentivise using E luck servants, but the modifier doesn't have to be especially strong, just skew the chances slightly, and they could have some way of making up for it (like Cu's durability). The biggest problem would probably just be that it'd be kind of a pain to implement

You’re right. It would be cool if they were fully implemented but it would be an ungodly pain to do so without breaking certain servants in both good and bad ways (Even if the chances are skewed, Drake would still pretty much crit 100% of the time)

I will say that it would bring non gold servants back on an even playing field though

Yeah I do too, but I wish they NP affect is higher is the only thing I wish...I mean if you read around Da Vinci's NP you'll literally say it's one of the most OP NPs and yet in game it's just a basic AOE caster NP with tons of NP buffs...

Not to mention Enuma Elish. It would be quite literally game breaking- considering that it’s technically considered an anti-planet (or universe but that sounds like an exaggeration) Noble Phantasm

It’s still OP as hell but it’s very tame compared to the hype it’s given in the lore

Yup, but still amazing since considering it deals ST to servants though the animation in my opinion is not that amazing and long, but it would totally go broken with servants with Anti-planet NP like when Abigail's NP is released to the max (She's a foreigner and what's inside her is from another world so the counter force wouldn't be able to do anything if it is released). Which is why they don't do that, but in the least I wish DW increase Da Vinci's damage more to fit her 'Universal man' title.

Well if they wanted to go 100% lore they could've given Heracles a passive NP which gives him 9x stacked guts lol

Then Herc would be a five star then and would be hailed as a meme like Merlin...I guess MC isn't just too strong as a mage.

He is already a meme tho :^)

Not the same as Merlin who's an easy mode meme though and doesn't get thrown that much since bond level 10 is hard...:)

Oh god. Heracles would actually have 12 guts plus a 13th if you count his actual skill. There are some things too broken even in a Post-Merlin world lmao

Omg yeah that's right it was 12 labours, derped there lmao but yeah, as if Herc isn't close enough to broken as is

Also, considering Artoria’s attacks did basically nothing against him, he’d probably start off with like 5x permanent defense buffs thanks to his Nemean Lion skin

Too. Damn. Broken.

Well he isn't called one of Greek mythology's greatest hero though. I remember there was 2 who was the other one again?

Not sure, but I'd guess maybe Achilles or Perseus? Achilles is self-explanatory, and Perseus is pretty much the only Paragon of perfection in Greek mythology

There were 4 great heroes: Heracles, Achilles, Perseus, and Odysseus/Ulysses

Perseus was also a Demi-God son of Zeus

I thought all of them were, except Odysseus?

Nope. Achilles is the son of a sea goddess. The reason he’s near immortal is because he was partially bathed in the River Styx he would be harder than Heracles to kill but his father pulled him out before his heel could be soaked- hence why his heel is his only weakness

Ah righto. Strange to think that Hektor fought in the same war against Odysseus and Achilles : /

Can't imagine he'd be anywhere near as OP as them. I guess that's beside the point tho since Achilles killed him lol

Hektor was a superior fighter for sure- probably worthy of being a 4* servant. Keep in mind, he was an ordinary human fighting on par with a nigh-immortal demigod.

Don't underestimate Odysseus when summoned in rider form he kicks around Alcides AKA the guy who could easily crush Gil. Yep great hero. Oh spoilers should I say it? No you know, right. Alcides is Herc and Odysseus is on the same level as him

His intellect made him one of the greatest Greek heroes. He could fight on par with Achilles but his cleverness made him far more of a threat in combat. He would probably have Arms Mastery EX in servant form

Effects in game 150% crit damage, 6000% star gather rate, Produces stars. Broken guy. He's weaker in Archer form though.

Idk man. He killed all of his wife’s suitors while disguised. I bet he’d be a boss assassin tbh lol

He has a Trojan horse NP that let's him hide as long as he wants and wouldn't be detected as it's considered as a reality marble but yeah Assassin Odysseus never thought of that.

He could fit in the Archer or Saber category but he would probably be better utilized in the Rider or Assassin class. He’d have a ship like Drake as a Rider but I feel that the way he usually defeated his enemies befits an Assassin the best

Well I do remember reading somewhere that in his proper archer class he'd be more OP than Gil. Guess Nasu just likes his archers without any conceivable limitations.

Mmhmm. Heracles could theoretically fill multiple roles: Saber, Archer, and Rider as well as his typical Berserker.

He’s a son of Zeus which puts him at the top of Divinity and his Nemean Lion pelt can only be damaged by a strong Noble Phantasm or by another hero/weapon with Divinity

Yeah, he can fit every one of the normal classes except caster I think. Apparently berserker is actually his weakest class : /

I could believe that. As sharp as his combat skills are as a berserker, they’d be twice that in Saber form. I know it says that his skills never leave him despite his madness, but even so, his Saber class is probably his strongest incarnation.

Sabercles would rek.

Any source on berserker being his weakest class? I know its stated he's strongest in the archer class but I always thought it was implied Berserker is #2 especially given how even Saber states that even if she was at full strength it would be a hard fight. Also God Hand is broken and if you're a one weapon user like Saber and you kill him in a way that doesn't take all his lives at once you're screwed.

Also its stated in Fate/complete material 3 Heracles was the strongest servant summoned in the 5th holy grail war.

True. Heracles can’t be killed by regular means and is one of the most powerful servants. The fact that Gilgamesh had thousands of weapons with some form of Divinity that he could fire like a mounted Gatlin gun makes the fact irrelevant though :/

I just remembered reading it somewhere, though it does probably stem from the fact that he is well known to be nerfed when summoned as a berserker since his combat ability is a huge part of his legend and he doesn't have that when he's madness-enhanced. And as for Herc being the strongest summoned in the 5th grail war, he's probably the strongest in every class he can be summoned in, or at least near the strongest. Plus, Nasu's pretty inconsistent with his lore, at one point I'm pretty sure he's stated that Gil is the strongest. No idea how seriously to take that though.

I mean, the guy fires off Noble Phantasms like a damn slot machine. Technically speaking, Emiya is the only one who can counter his full barrage

Plus they all pale in comparison to the Grand Servants. Like as strong as Heracles is, he’d still lose the fight while facing Solomon, Merlin, or King Hassan

Gil is strongest overall but he wasn't technically part of the 5th holy Grail war. Well specifically he's the strongest "proper" heroic spirit so it's possible people like Scathach or Merlin who are not normally summonable due to never dying are stronger(though I think it's unlikely).

As you say Heracles is going to be top tier no matter the class it's just stated berserker is the class he is most familiar with due to his many fits of rage in life and the only other class given mention is that Archer is his strongest which leads me to think Berserker is at least in the upper half of classes he can be summoned into.

Right. But, at the same time, he was a participant in the war.
No one can match Heracles in a 1 on 1 fight outside of Scathatch, King Hassan, and whoever the Grand Saber is or really any of the Grand Servants because they’re literally god tier.

I’d argue that, seeing as EMIYA’s Unlimited Blade Works is practically a carbon copy of Gilgamesh’s Gate of Babylon, EMIYA could have killed Heracles in the same way that Gilgamesh did

Plus his Caladbolg II did actually take one of Heracles’ 12 lives when not even Excalibur could scratch him.

Regarding Excalibur not scratching him thats due to God Hands effect of negating anything B rank or lower and since sabers strength is B rank normal attacks with Excalibur go off that even though its a A++ ranked NP and thus do no damage so that's an issue with Saber herself not Excalibur.

While I'm not sure EMIYA can reproduce the chains of heaven which were a big part of Gil's win I do agree EMIYA should have the advantage in general its just the one time they do fight its at close range in enemy territory so EMIYA gets screwed... actually EMIYA never really gets to show off his archery in stay night kinda sad given that's his best point.

True but at one point he does fire precisely enough to slice the magic threads that Medea bound Shirou in without scratching him so I feel like that shows a great deal.

He never creates them but he can make something similar. He’s never done it (to my knowledge) but his Projection magic is enhanced enough that he can create legendary Noble Phantasms that aren’t swords or blades (For instance his own bow or the Rho Aias shield from the Trojan War. The fact that he knows the specifications of Odin’s spear Gungnir indicates that he can create Divine weapons as well)

He’d lose in a fair fight but he’d most likely win if he activates Unlimited Blade Works.

Oh yeah true. Idk Gil is apparently 2/3 god as opposed to the typical 1/2 lol. As far as I know, the only major drawback with Herc's berserker form is the fact that he lacks agency and independent thought, so you might be right.

But Herc has his x12 Guts skill
Well, the Agartha one
:D

True. I also wish they’d beef up Emiya’s Unlimited Blade Works too. It was never gonna be on par with Enuma Elish but I feel as though it’s fairly underwhelming compared to how broken it is in the lore/anime.

Idk though, I don't think it was ever all that broken, it was essentially just a quicker version of gate of Babylon. But yeah, they really should strengthen it at some point.

Yeah poor Da Vinci. Her NP is EX rank and then you see it and it's so underwhelming. The animation for it is pretty dope tho so I guess there's that : /