Hi,
I am new to FGO but I am completely hooked. Spent my first money yesterday for a caster grand summon and got waver :)
But I have a fundamental doubt. I understand 2 things about the order of cards
1. First card bonus
2. Cards played 3rd usually yield a higher output
But in tandem, these seem confusing. So for example if I need NP building, then do I play arts first or third or both? Let us assume I have a Herc buster and 2 waver Arts - do I go BAA or AAB or ABA? Option 2 is max damage, so that is probably the least preferable but I am still not able to wrap my head around this. And if add a quick into the mix, I go random. So can someone help me out here in layman terms please....
Ananth
Leading with an Arts cards means the subsequent cards will get an NP gain boost. Normally you can't gain NP with a Buster card, but with an Arts card lead, you can. It really differs from servant to servant, so you need to look up the datamine online and play around with your servants to determine the appropriate card order for every situation. In your example, ABA would yield the most NP gain for Waver.
Thanks for the answer, that makes sense. Forgive me for asking, but considering I am new what exactly does "datamine online" refer to?
Datamine is like reading the app codes iirc. He was telling you to search for it online. There is a lot of information from wiki and other websites that probably can help you.
First, I suggest you to read the combat mechanic at here : https://grandorder.gamepress.gg/combat-mechanics
Basically, Buster boosts Dmg & little Crit, Art gains & boosts NP, Quick gains little NP boosts Crit and if they are first cards they also adapt their effects on the 2nd and 3rd. The order also increases their effects and Dmg : 1<2<3
Therefore, the best NP gain for Herc is AAA chain with the last Art card is his card. Next is AQA and third is his BQA brave chain because Extra attack has all above effects.
Second, in advance mechanic, the hitcounts also affects the NP gain. So there’s a type of AQQ brave chain to increase NP gauge because the hits of quick > Art ( ideally its double )
Third, the Crit and Overkill also boosts NP gain.
So, it’s about NP gain, if u have any question feel free to ask veterans here ;)
I second this. The important thing to know is 1) the servant's hit counts for each of their cards, 2) their base NP gain and 3) the placement of their card in the chain
I did read that first!! Like I said in isolation it makes sense, when I try to combine them into an order the outcome is not what I expect (still learning I suppose!). Thanks for the explanation, it does make sense. I really have no idea about the advanced mechanic you are referring to, need to clue myself in on that. Man, there is so much reading that this game demands :D
By scrolling down the servant profile on this site you can see more detail information about his NP gains, Star Generation, Traits,...
To summarise:
Np gain rate: Buster (0), Quick (1), Arts (3)
If it is a second card, the rate is increased by 50%; and 100% for 3rd card ie:
Buster (0), Quick (2), Arts (6)
If Arts card start first it adds a constant 1 to the NP rate hence for example 3rd card:
B (1), Q(3), A(7)
The rate is then multiplied with Np rate of each servant and the hit counts for each card.
So? Do your maths on each servant using their respective hit counts and the constant numbers. Note that Arts at 1st has effect on ex card and can be extremely important factor depending on the ex hit count. Lastly, overkill will further boost the NP rate by 30%, hence it can be a good idea to reach overkill using Busters and then gain a large amount of NP with 3rd Arts card overkill (like Musashi).
That's the basics if you don't mind the maths.
That is both making sense and not !!
Its the advanced bit where I seem to flounder. Until your "So?" I am following your train of thoughts, after that it gets a little murky when you refer to the "ex" card. What does that mean, if you dont mind me asking. Is there an example floating around for the math, if I can see one grounded I can work out the rest for myself... I hope :)
Sorry, I was trying to avoid writing too much but end up skipping a lot of stuff. Firstly to confirm my point, Np gain is:
Np gain of the servant x (constant rate of the card x card buff + 1st card bonus if art as 1st) x number of hits x overkill bonus (actually is 50% not 30% sorry) x crit bonus x NP gain buff x enemy type (ignore this for now)
For example Waver 1st card Arts:
1.64 x (3 x 1.1 Territory creation skill +1 = 4.3) x 1...= by default 7 NP gain.
As you can see, there are many factors in just calculating the default NP gain, not to mention the variety of combination that you can take and the need to total up the NP gain for each card.
Then you have extra card as well, because that constant 1st card bonus applies to it too, with the number of hit counts it can have, it is another huge contributing factor to total NP gain.
Quick cards does not boost NP gain, it is just a card with better constant rate than Buster, but it usually has high hit count to sometimes get close to Arts card performance especially with Arts 1st card boost.
Finally for your question, Herc Buster and Waver Arts has both 1 hit on their cards so the calculation is much simpler:
BAA = 0 4.95 6.6 = Herc x 0 /// Waver x 11.55 = 18
ABA = 4.3 1 7.6 = Herc x 1 = nah /// Waver x 11.9 = 19
There is a bit of rounding down problem here but ABA will be better usually, by a bit. But BAA has higher damage, so if reach overkill status on 3rd card, Np gain can be 4.95 + 9.9 = total of 23 instead.
Or you could just memorise their final NP rate on each card and make your life easier.
Wow! Thanks, that was in depth. Will go through that in more detail and get a grip on at least getting close to gauging what I get versus what I expect. Much appreciated :)
I did see that, it was very helpful but it does not graduate into the next step of choosing disparate cards. Basics are covered well which I think was the intent of the video anyway considering it is a "school of chaldea" video :D
Well. I think other answers are good enough for guide. But generally you still need plenty of experiences then know what card to choose..
My personal tips for a beginner like you is:
(1) Brave/Art/Quick chain > others, except Buster meme
(2) Put any card with highest stars (>70% at least) as the 3rd position, no matter what kind of card it is
(3) Have a plan for next round. For instance, as you mentioned ABA or AAB for Herc/Waver, Well I think Herc wont have good no gain from his Buster card anayway but you should consider your Waver's next movement. Like next turn probably he wont have enough card (or Art card), so ABA > AAB.
(4) You dont really have to follow a strict doctrine for every servants because most of them are in distinct combat pattern
https://pastebin.com/raw/TP1wHpZE
This website only provide a Brave chain pattern for different servant but it also imply which card you may chose. For instance, Waver and Scathach's Quick card is poor then you can discard them if you have other good option.
(5) Generally dont put Quick card as 1st position
Overall, it still require your accumulated enough experiences for yourself. Even me with triple lv130 accounts and tons of 10-10-10 SSR but still hard to answer ABA vs BAA vs AAB which is better.
(6) if you run double Merlin/Waver, you don’t have to concern about combat mechanic anymore.
Btw, @Dr. Which is better? Tamamo bond CE or 2030 ?
Well, I am not sure. I prefer 2030.
2030 Tammy good for Art critical team, such as with Caster Gil, in 4060 Merlin-Vlad team or in 4060 Waver-Orion team, etc. Let alone Saberlot, Nursery Rhyme, Kuro and Li Shewen as SR DPS but more rely on critical damage. In the future, Sherlock Holmes, Shi Huang Di, MHXX, BB, Summer Jeanne, etc also required Art critical team then 2030 worked more better.
Thus far I even find 4060 Ozy+Merlin+Tammy is also good even though Ozy isn't using Art NP.
If she equip with bond CE, it is highly recommend to have another Tammy with bond CE then all team member have +30% art-up, or even +45% with triple bond CE (Like umu Bride). However it is more strict requirement. It is OP for Archuria and Sumoe but still not quite versatile as for 2030. Also unfortunately Waver's bond CE is buster-up so it restricted Tammy bond CE application.
I may say generally 2030 Tammy is better due to more versatility. But "DUAL" bond CE Tammy also win for specific team like with Archuria, Katsushika Hokusai.
Sorry if I am late for this response.
Thanks. Your breakdown is really appreciated. I might try dual bond CE but still finding Tamamo whith her bond ce is quite hard in the new meta now xD
Thanks for that nice summation. Makes sense in a way to have a simplistic set of rules to follow before graduating onto tougher mechanics. Will keep your pointers in mind the next time I pick my cards !
